jamie foxx cast as the president. he is in a new movie as president. it you were casting a movie and needed a president who would your movie president be. john tower has a few answers. >> great ones but want to start with something you said about people with mustaches earlier. milton who clearly has a mustache from a twitter picture just because you lack the testosterone to grow one is no reason to insult those of white house can. >> i tried in college -- those of us who can. >> i have a gap here and gap here. don't want to offend our mustache wearing audience. i apologize. our three answers. tyler writes, i would go with the rock. who would mess with us. mark wants mickey rourke. a great pick. and jeff, gilbert gottfried to hear him deliver the state of the union and other big speeches. >> that would be an interesting movie. we had danny devito, producer eric schultz has a man crush on steve gluten burg and gave us that one. i don't know what that's about.

"morning joe" exclusive interview with wendy davis coming up starts right now. . this surrender comes courtesy of a group of senators calling themselves the gang of eight. no surprise, you let in the mexicans and before you can say bibliotecha the senate is run by a gang. look at these guys. i wouldn't be surprised if they were smuggling in premium uncut flomax. who are they? jimmy juice it mccain. >> the maverick. menendez, the maybe mexican one. graham. the seductress. rubio, mr. thirsty. schumer, big daddy schu. the one you just heard of. and the rest. gang of eight.

>> good morning. it's friday, june 28th. great to have you with us and hope you're having a wonderful friday. it's going to be a beautiful day. with us chairman of deutsch inc, donny deutsch. visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> msnbc's thomas roberts. >> good morning. >> in washington, pulitzer-prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and on capitol hill, nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. talking about this historic vote. here we have "wall street journal" talking about how the immigration bill clears the senate. "the washington post," senate approves immigration bill. you can go on and on. and this is truly -- truly, eugene robinson, as historic a

vote on any immigration bill, since the last immigration bill passed the house by the same margin. it was killed in the house. >> yeah. yeah. i mean -- >> i don't mean to be skeptical, but come on. >> look. there are reasons to be skeptical, number one, because the speaker of the house says he's not going to bring up the bill. but it is a historic moment. the senate did get it together to do something that everybody needed and knew needed to be done, but how was this going to happen? actually, this one question i had for you, joe, as a former member of the house, is there any chance that it could get through the house via a discharge petition, 218 members of the house could vote to bring up the senate bill, essentially taking john boehner off the hook, and getting an up or down vote, where it could pass? >> i don't think so. harold ford, a discharge

petition, could that get this out? >> they could start it but yeah, as you well remember, it stops when the majority sees it's getting close they can stop and try their hardest to bring it through normal procedure and they have the opportunity and power to try to change and amend and so forth. i think it's probably unlikely. >> you're not going to get the citizenship thing. if you wanted the best, donny deutsch, we're going to go to kelly in a second, a visual of what it's going to look like, the senate best, the senate just fighting and struggling hard to get this thing done, let me show you this clip. this is what the house is going to be looking like. the house is going to be the reporter on top of this flood victim in india who, by the way, just for the record, you don't want to try this at home. the reporter has been suspended, but that is -- that is right now, that is john boehner who's

on top of harry reid explaining to the american people why they will not be passing -- >> 17-year veteran journalist. >> i want to be in the preproduction meeting when you drew those lines together. okay, we're going to use this visual. >> can we hear this guy for a second? >> can i hear him live for a second. [ speaking foreign language ] >> when pressed afterward when he was suspended he said he was doing this guy a wonderful favor. >> joe, in this country that's what we call an intern actually. >> exactly. >> back to our regularly scheduled program. >> that is exactly -- you were going to see. the senate has now carried this over to the house and the house is going to treat the senate with as much respect as a reporter treated the flood victim. kelly, how did we get to this point where the senate passed a

momentous immigration bill that has little chance of getting through the house? >> joe, we're lucky they're in the going to tilt down the camera to see whose shoulders i'm standing on here. we're all safe. >> right there. keep it waist up. >> when you talk about why this is significant, let me give you a sense of what it felt like in the senate chamber. i watch a lot of votes. you've been there and seen how it is. there is usually a lot of empty seats and not so much electricity in the room. the chamber was packed and it was filled in part by some of the young undocumented immigrants coming to capitol hill to try to make their stories and their faces known. and the media section was packed. it was basically standing room only. people wanted to see this happen. there was a lot of talk about how senator kennedy had tried and not been able to. former president george w. bush had tried an not been able to. while the house chapter is still to come and looks rather precarious, the senate had a real victory and accomplishment with 14 republicans getting on board. there was a sense that even

though this might be incremental it was a step forward for those who want to see this kind of reform. the vice president came to preside. >> it was a good day. >> reporter: over the first overhaul of immigration law in 30 years. all 100 senators added a solemn touch voting from their desks. 14 republicans joined all democrats in favor. chants of "yes, we can" from undocumented students watching inside the gallery. >> the sergeant at arms will -- >> reporter: the senate planned forged by a group of democrats and republicans could grant undocumented immigrants legal status and 13-year path to citizenship, creates a guest worker program and adds a so-called border surge, more agents and border fence. >> isn't it in us to bring 11 million people out of the shadows. >> after months of heated disagreement, republican opponents label it amnesty that could drive down wages here. >> don't we need to consider the

impact this policies could have on working americans? >> turning more personal, be new jersey democrat robert men denness voted in honor of his immigrant mother. >> of my mother who came from cuba, worked hard and made it possible for me to stand here today, on the verge of passing a historic piece of legislation that she would have wanted me to vote for. >> reporter: risking his future ambitions going against the conservative base, florida republican marco rubio spoke of his family's past. >> my father had someone phonetically write on a small piece of paper the words "i am looking for work." >> so harold, talking of the chances the senate bill has in the house, maybe -- maybe the house comes up with a plan to legalize immigrants, but not to grant them citizenship. maybe they go halfway and then maybe they head it out in committee. >> as you know, people who want this to happen, including me, understand, have to understand that the house has to work its

will. the chairman of the committee, bob goodlet, has indicated the house's version of immigration reform can look very different than the senate's. those of us who want it we have to understand the house is a total different body and beast, so let them work their will and way and hope it comes to a reconciliation process which we call conference. if that happens it's a win. and during conference i think there's a real opportunity for the bill to look more like the senate's. it will be harder for the house when house republicans acknowledge as well as presidential contenders including chris christie and others and jeb bush begin to weigh in. let this process unfold. let it unravel. at the rate it's going i like where we are. i wish they had gotten 70 votes. it didn't. let the house do their part and we too could find ourselves in a good position. >> the house will do their part but most importantly, john boehner is talking about the hastert rule. >> the agriculture bill -- you said on the show a few days ago, the way they handled that bill

does not bode well. let them work their will. instead of speculating, those who want it including you, work its way. >> which means if they get the majority of the majority which means if the majority of republicans in the house want it on the floor, then he'll let it move forward. if not it won't. so the fallout continues on another story. for paula deen, target not going to fill more orders. qvc taking her off the air for now and diabetes trug manufacturers have suspended their deals with her, yet her book sales have been through the roof, two of her cookbooks are at the top of the amazon best seller list and her family has six of the top ten selling cookbooks on the web retailer. donny. >> that is the ultimate dichotomy between human tolerance and corporate tolerance. >> so now -- but this isn't about tolerance. people are going out buying the book to send a message. >> yeah. look, i was shocked when a

66-year-old woman from the south a admitted she had used the n-word in her life. >> man. >> i know. now as disgusting as that is -- >> why were you shocked? >> i'm being facetious. that's my whole point. >> i haven't had my coffee yet. >> that comic. >> my man, take a swig. >> as we were talking earlier on this, the younger in today's generation the more color-blind they are. corporations have no choice in that instance. no choice. even if they said we want to stand by her. >> yeah but are you surprised people are running out and buying her cookbooks because somebody said the n word? >> no. here's why they're buying the cookbook. >> i'm going to go get her cookbook too for two reasons. number one, there's been such an avalanche of awareness that it just -- her -- she's the number one face on tv. good better or indifferent. number two to the paula deen fans oh, my god we're not going

to get more pal la dean, be grab her while she's still in american commerce. the whole story is a sad story on every level. what she did obviously is horrific on every level. but -- >> so you're saying from guns to paula deen's greasy cookbooks, the fear of scarcity are driving the numbers up. >> i think this instance yes. >> eugene, you wrote in the "washington post" paula deen slurs are a bitter pill to swallow. she spent her adult life in america where black people are not compelled to be subservant to whites. she has made her fortune in america where most people white as well as black consider warm and fuzzy nostalgia for the days of slavery. all black people are uppity now. every one of us i'm afraid. i hope she figures it out. anyone that fond of deep fryer can't be all bad.

a period of silence would be a good start, said the man from south carolina. my advice, eat some hush puppies and don't talk with your mouth full. >> i resemble that remark. i mean -- >> i want to ask both -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> go ahead, gene. want to get gene's response. >> i was going to say, that column was -- that's not what i was planning to write about yesterday. and it just kind of wrote itself when i was driving in to the office. i had been thinking about paula deen. grown up in the south. she is 66. she's not 96. if she were 96 i could understand. she's 66 years old. >> you get no slack be for being 66. >> she doesn't get as much slack as some people are cutting her. and really, the thing was, to me wasn't okay she used that forbidden word and who knows when, how many times, how long ago. that actually got me less than

the whole old south and the idea for bubba's wedding we're going to have, you know, these -- all the ser vers be middle-aged black men dressed identically and it's kind of elegant and old south and sort of -- it's just that -- you know, if you want to set me off, that's the way to do it. that's what got me. >> that's -- the whole thing is vulgar but that's the part you go -- i think there's a bigger discussion in our culture with words. now as i said there's nothing mel gibson can do or say to me that will ever make me do anything but vomit. when you're on the receiving end of the slurs it feels different. having said that, we now know there are two gives in our culture that everything that is said and done sticks forever. and that there are very loose ways that words are used, you and i can joke with each other, you can use, you wouldn't, a jewish slur, would be different

than something that happens in a different context. we know about lyrics and what not. and do we ever get to a point in this culture where good -- whether this is the case here or not, where good people can say the wrong thing and -- >> i think there are a few words that are toxic and will be forever and paula deen said one of them. that is in 2013 that is the one word that will sink you for good. i mean let's look anthony weiner. anthony weiner's -- >> coming back. >> coming back. he's in first place. we could give other examples. the guy that did crack in toronto. his poll numbers are up 5 points. >> human flaws and hatred and that's the difference. >> but a lot of times it's not even hatred. take jimmy the greek. you'll remember that. >> yes. >> jimmy the greek and you'll remember it as well, jimmy the greek said some really, really stupid things and the guy was just absolutely hung out to dry.

he shouldn't have been hung out to dry. he was just stupid. >> just stupid. >> back in i think in the '80s and gene, you would agree with me, he was from a different age and you sit there and -- my attitude, was just shut the hell up. >> he should have shut up. look, jimmy the greek didn't bother me that much at the time because i did understand he was from a different age and he does get some slack. it's just that it's the year 2013, you know. >> and you know what -- >> going through this 60 years. >> put things in perspective, gene, paula deen was in her 30s when jimmy the greek said that. seriously. i mean, i, you know, i -- old white people that i knew and grew up around that were born in 1905, 1910, you know, you know what i'm talking about, gene. >> i know. >> i mean everybody said things back then that they just stopped saying around 1975.

>> '6 66 and 96. >> at some point it dauns on you and it even dawns on those people that gee, maybe i shouldn't say that anymore, maybe, you know, maybe the country has changed a little bit. and that just haddens quite dawned on her in the right way. >> if she was so, you know, ready to talk about this and didn't have anything to hide, i think people wonder why cancel the first interview. >> yeah. >> and then the collapse of the two youtube statements that went out and that didn't respond really well when the first one was highly edited and interview with matt where he asked, don't you think that people find that word to be insensitive. her response is i don't know. >> i don't know. >> and then i is what i is -- >> that was the problem. >> it's like, where are you coming down on this? look, if you got nothing to hide. you come out guns blazing. i've got nothing to hide. this is not my intention. this is certainly a word that i regret and i'm sorry and the

whole thing. to say that i don't recognize that this is a problem word. >> yeah. >> and i don't know where it falls in society, that to me is a red flag. >> if she has a crisis manager she should fire that crisis manager. pr team, she needs to look for another one. it was a botched, botched thing. really quickly one other story and we do have a special guest coming up in the show, on this issue, things are getting personal now in the lone star state. speaking at the national right to life convention, texas governor rick perry accused state senator wendy davis of hijacking the democratic process during her 11-hour filibuster of the state's most recent abortion bill. he went on to say that davis' personal story is a perfect example of why she should support stronger anti-abortion laws. >> who are we to say that children born into the worst of circumstances can't grow to live a successful lives.

in fact, even the woman who filibuster the senate the other day was born into difficult circumstances. she's the daughter of a single woman. she was a teenage mother herself. she managed to eventually graduate from harvard law school. and serve in the texas senate. it's just unfortunate that she hasn't learned from her own example. >> oh. >> that everybody must be given a chance to realize its full potential and that every life matters. >> wow. >> wow. >> wow. >> wow. >> rick perry, does rick perry really want -- talking about other people's personal lives, wow. >> i mean, come on. >> down here looking up. that's it terrible. >> don't go there. >> would i do that if i were rick perry? davis responded to rick perry in statement calling his remarks, quote, without dignity. she joins us on "morning joe"

live at 7:30 eastern time. i wonder, kelly, who does that? who does that? that's just -- you get that personal. >> apparently the governor missed that whole chapter between rush limbaugh and sandra fluke, the woman who testified on capitol hill and he went so personal in his comments about her and that backfired. she became more empowered. certainly the governor's position about abortion rights is well known. so a lot of the other things he said didn't surprise anyone. but to go that personal against a woman who had obviously touched a nerve, had a lot of support and simply used the democratic process. nobody likes a filibuster when it's not their issue. i like how it's hated given the day and moment and party. she used the rules and got a lot of attention for an issue she believed in. those who want to bring this idea back, will do it again as early as next week. the underlying bill they're talking about would be to limit abortion at 20 weeks and to

require when an abortion is performed, it's in a surgical center that is, as you know, part of the fallout after the gosnell case where there was a belief that maybe more medical structure should be put around these. now, of course, people who want to see abortion rights strictly curtailed look for opportunities to bring a bill like this. you've got all of that emotion. there was simply no need to go personal. and the governor took that on and he will i'm sure be able to take the criticism that will come his way. >> on a lighter night, i hear it is highly personal between these two. she gets more compliments for having better hair. >> oh, really? >> yeah. >> that was a very mitt romney-esque comment about a white republican politician with no sense of the world outside of their own world. >> don't think it was mean. he was trying to embarrass her and send a message, listen, she was a teenage mom.

come on. she's not one of us. >> that's my point. >> come on. >> that's exactly what that comment is about. you know, only thing if a woman were saying that about somebody they would start it with, bless her heart. bless her heart, she's a teenage mom and the underlying message, harold, is? pray for her because she obviously -- >> doesn't know any better and we should try to welcome her into our group and our community of whatever. fascinating to me, you talk about this before, talked about it yesterday i think, the country actually is moving closer to his position on abortion. >> yeah. >> and we have to find restrictions. i'm pro choice. we live in a city, in an area of the country that thinks differently. for him to take that tact, only enrages people like me who might think that perhaps some restrictions around it ought to be provided. >> and -- >> if you're talked that way -- >> and bother people like me who believe it is reasonable for a state to set 20 weeks as a limit, as someone who had a

premature child that was born, you know, at 27 weeks and was in the ic -- nicu and saw kids at 24 weeks. i think that's very reasonable. i think actually having more safety standards around abortions, i think that's reasonable as well. i think making someone who's an abortion provider actually have to be able to be admitted to a local hospital which people on the pro choice say is absolutely outrageous i believe that. i think most americans believe that. >> he attacked her and her mother. and her mom. >> my point here is, he is hurting my cause. >> right. >> by making a personal attack like that. >> he attacked her and her mother which i don't know what he was trying to get at there. >> wendy davis is an electric politician who has a big following now, national profile, rick perry is just doing her favors because she has aspirations to a higher office. >> he is. and again, for -- >> basic rules of politics don't

give your opponent a bigger stage. >> you know what, we -- >> put aside, that's just terrible. >> that was one of the three things he was supposed to remember when he gave that speech but he forget that. he for goth. >> he forgot. i'm not supposed to make the pro life position less desirable. >> what we saw about that -- >> talk about the department of education -- >> bless his heart. >> bless his heart. >> kelly, thank you so much. we really appreciate it. >> good to see you all. >> coming up we have michael issy cough, an exclusive in the investigation into a general, a very powerful general, who's in big trouble because of a pentagon leak. some are saying it tipped off the iranians. david gregory and robert gibbs. later steve carell joins the table and later alec baldwin anger issues are back allegedly. we don't believe this story. in a big way. the accusations that put him on a twitter rampage. ahead in news you can't use.

he's just bored. come on. first here's dylan dryer with a check on the forecast. >> joe, heavy rain move through yesterday and it's now moving up across central and northern new england and we do have flood watches in effect across most of the northeast because of the fact that we are going to see more heavy rain throughout the day today. the heaviest right now is sitting to the north and west of albany but areas up and down the east coast into new england right down into the gulf coast states could see the storms produce torrential downpours, damaging winds and hail possible. we're not looking at a huge tornado threat though. temperatures are warm. it's muggy. it's actually going to be cooler today than it was yesterday. but watch in d.c., still up around 90 degrees. tomorrow new york city is back around 90 as well. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. "i'm part of an american success story,"

"that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart"

let's take a look at the morning papers. from "the boston globe" our parade of papers, whitey bulger lashed out in court yesterday when accused of being an informant to the fbi. the outburst laced with an expletive was the first time that bulger has shown emotion in the courtroom. the witness former fbi agent john morris says bulger bribed him with cash and wine in exchange for intel. and the "washington post," future trading commission charged former new jersey governor jon corzine in the role in the collapse of mf global. he's responsible for misplacing more than $1 billion in company cash when it ran into financial problems in 2011. the agency says it wants a trading and registration ban on corzine as well as restitution and penalties.

that is quite a story. and the "usa today," the average rate of a 30-year mortgage loan rose to 4.46% making that the highest average in two years and the largest weekly increase in over a quarter of a century. the rates are still pretty low which could lead to more potential buyers to committing now instead of waiting for those rates to rise again. and from nbc news, one amusement park in mexico is offering ride stimulants, a ride that simulates what it would be like to illegally cross the border into the u.s. the ride offers a three to four-hour night walk which takes visitors -- >> no way. >> on a simulated border crossing complete with fake smugglers, barking dogs and a fake border patrol officer, according to the park. the experience is meant to discourage visitors from attempting to leave the country by showing them how dangerous it is. and this weekend is the parade's

fourth of july issue. featuring a quiz testing your knowledge of america. that this weekend. >> i hope most americans take it and see if we can pass it. >> you take that test or the border amusement ride. >> both. >> with us now from the politico playbook we've got politico's editor in chief, john harris. john, republicans are not -- >> good morning, joe. >> republicans aren't doing too well in some parts of the country. certainly not in national elections. boy, as politico reports today, as we were talking about i think yesterday or the day before, if you want to see how to win as a republican, look to the midwest. >> absolutely. vandehei and alan have an early valentine to ohio governor john kasic, a really positive piece on his record in ohio. but the point it makes is exactly the one you're making, joe, which is there is a model for republican success, be they

say. they've pined it in the midwest with kasic in ohio, in wisconsin walker, and elsewhere, that puts the emphasis not on social issues and not on partisan bickering but on a record of genuine toughness and job creation. and, you know, when we last checked in on kasic he was unpopular, a posterchild for the problems that republican governors are having, the unemployment rate has gone down in ohio, now below the national average and his approval ratings are up over 50%. clearly is a model for republican success. there as chief executives in the middle east. >> wow. >> we're all shocked here because we're amazed if republicans walk away from social issues and focus on fiscal responsibility and the economy that works. that to me was shocking and we should have been ahead of this curve. >> the thing is john kasic is conservative when it comes to social issues as well. it's just what your emphasis, getting people back to work and not working overtime to offend

them. chris christie, very tough in new jersey. the guy's got a 70% approval rating but he sat down and worked with democrats and tried to make them partner in the. we're going to do it my way but i'll try to meet you as close to the middle as i can. you have the same thing in the case of john kasic. a little confrontational at first. things didn't go so well. so much doesn't have to do with ideology. so much with temperament, it has to do -- and john, as i -- or harold, always say -- >> you've been saying this for a while. >> does not involve having to cave on conservative principles or being a pushover to democrats or to public employee unions. these guys are not pushovers. they're tough but they managed to convey it toughness without conveying a sort of endless partisan warfare. >> yeah. >> they're displaying toughness around issues people care about and want toughness. donny is being kind. if your party would find its way

to the -- not middle but to a position talk about how you can grow -- >> you can serve the government -- >> make government work. >> scott walker a year ago was being lacerated. he finds himself in a different position. our friend, a great, great friend of this show and your dear friend, mike barnicle one morning, saying scott walker would be judged a year from when he started this effort to rein in what he believed was abuse of powers by union, i don't necessarily agree with that, but abuse of powers by union if scott walker grew the job base. he finds himself in a different position according to what john and politico is saying. it is interesting if these governors emerge as a model for the party. >> what i've been saying for five years now, nonstop, y, you talk about reagan, want to be like reagan, be like reagan, be conservative ideological, be pragmatic and moderate temperamentally. rick perry is a great example this morning of how not to be

moderate temperamentally and how to -- >> the wrong issue. >> not only swing voters in your state but across the country and it buys you nothing in the debate. >> bless his heart. >> bless his heart. >> you don't have to walk away from the ideology. chris christie, i don't believe in gay marriage but so be it. so be it. that's great. okay. >> 70%. >> don't get gay married, chris christie. >> everybody is like it's the law. >> mary pat, chris. >> he appreciates your advice. >> john harris, thank you so much. coming up, as if one murder charge wasn't enough, the police are investigating aaron hernandez in connection to the 2012 double murder in boston. this story just keeps getting worse. that's ahead on "morning joe." with the fidelity american express credit card, every purchase earns you 2% cash back, which is deposited in your fidelity account. is that it? actually... there's no annual fee and no limits on rewards.

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the murder investigation involving former new england patriots tight end aaron hernandez expanding to include two more suspects and being investigated in a separate double homicide case dating back to last year. >> can you believe this? this story just keeps -- this guy is like just crazed and out of control. >> now everyone's coming out and saying they knew about it and they had reservations but always say this after the fact, right?

we act shocked -- we forget a lot of athletes put uniforms on -- >> when he was a late teenager and has been a bit of a downhill slide. >> some stat like 27 nfl players have been arrested since the super bowl. >> larger discussion to have on nfl, head injuries or violence and so on. he was denied bail yesterday and another man carlos ortiz was arrested, also charged with first-degree murder and another man is still at large considered a suspect as an accessory after the fact. meanwhile "the boston globe" reporting hernandez being investigated in a possible role of a double murder in 2012 and odin lloyd, the victim, found dead in that industrial park near hernandez's home, may have known about that story. investigators telling "the globe" a fight broke out at a night club between two men and a group that may have included hernandez the two men were shot and killed as they drove away from the club. all of this has raised questions

about hernandez who as we mentioned months ago talked about the importance of setting a good example too. >> you're obviously a favorite in the hispanic community. what ways do you give back to the community? >> um, i just try to be a role model. and when i see hispanics that look up to me i try to lead them in the right direction and hopefully gives a lot of hispanics out there to be a drive to be successful because there's not that many hispanic in the nfl and it's an honor to be one. >> he did give a $50,000 check to mira kraft's foundation when he signed that deal. >> one less in the nfl today. my god, that is horrible. harold, what was his contract? >> i think he signed a five year, $40 million contract with the patriots. this is a sad, sad story, man. i don't know what this guy could have been thinking of. >> sad he didn't realize what he was doing, he could get away with it too. so many faccets of sadness. >> there were clues he was guilty when he destroyed his

cell phone, the surveillance camera and hired industrial cleaners to clean up his own. >> his own cameras in his own home were the ones at the end of the day implicated him. >> unbelievable. more a-rod drama. what's going on? >> he comes on a conference call supposedly with the team and says i may not be able to come back this year. >> holy cow. >> two days after he tweeted he's been cleared to play games. >> we don't want you back, a-rod. i'm a yankee fan. we don't want you back, pal. >> joe, you know this is about insurance money. they don't want him to come back. they want to find a way to not have to pay him the rest of the millions and millions of dollars he's owed. >> yeah. man. >> go blue, michigan man, very excited about. >> love that pick. >> yeah. >> first pick in the draft was like out of nowhere. >> kids out of -- >> freshman, 6'7" goes to cleveland. first pick was supposed went number six and traded garnett and pierce -- >> what about that. >> the nets starting lineup,

deron williams, joe johnson, kevin garnett, brook lopez. >> they better win in a year because they're getting old. >> deron williams going to get hurt, jason kidd coming off the bench. >> the russian billionaire going all-in? >> go grizzlies. >> up next, we have bloomberg's business week's josh green. a shocked man he was not selected last night. he's going to tell us about the surprise court decisions and how they can determine the political fate of the gop. he joins us next. mika's must-read opinion pages being telefaxed in from the south of france as we speak. [ panting ]

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investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. must-read op-eds, senior national correspondent from bloomberg business week josh green.

told us before we read what he wrote, news, harold ford, josh said we make fun of his basketball skills. he says he's the only kid in his high school that could dunk the ball and by the way, i got an e-mail from his parents who told me that -- it's the truth. >> nice boy. >> the nerf goal in their living room, goes into the kitchen, torn to shreds. >> white man can jump. >> joe has a game. the mound of rebounds -- >> joe, you -- >> from florida. >> 6'4" frame. >> 6'4". i go go horizontal but it's all about positioning. they -- >> major hack -- >> they call me the round man of rebound. i could be -- you why know, if you get wide enough span you get the rebounds and take it down. >> the guy in the short short and a headband. >> that wasn't me. i would be wearing cutoff jeans, hawaii 76 t-shirt and just

lumbering down the court. >> a tough nantucket game with you and steve ratner and the others, rappers out there -- >> him and david gregory have been going at it -- >> mr. bridgehampton is making fun of me, seriously? >> can i take your helicopter to nantucket. >> any time. >> all right. this what is josh writes, a week that will shake the gop for the last few years, characteristic of the gop, republicans have fixated on a handful of per roque yal issues, debts, deficits, burdens of the entrepreneur and looming minutes of obama care to the exclusion of almost everything else, one way of looking at this week's momentous events in washington, from the supreme court's ruling to the senate's passing of the immigration bill is they'll be forced to engage in a set of other issues central to american life and the decisions the party makes will go a long way to determining the future of its electoral fate. this is fantastic because i

probably couldn't disagree with you more. serious. >> let's go through. >> go through it. >> tuesday, the voting rights act decision strikes do it down on its face. good news for republicans they aren't blocked from the voter i.d. laws. that forces to the front burner disenfranchising voters which is what these laws do. if you as the gop are trying to broaden your appeal at the minorities and what's happening is a series of laws that limit the ability of black and latino people to vote, shrink early voting times, message you're sending is we don't want you in our party. dick armey had a great line, can't call her ugly all year and invite her to the prom. >> right. >> you can't limit these people's rights to vote and say hey come vote republican we're trying to broaden our appeal. >> this is -- and i was talking about what the republicans need to do to reach out and not pick unnecessary fights. i don't think this is an unnecessary fight. i have seen over the past couple

days people, and harold, i would love your input and gene still with us. >> still here. >> love to have your input on this, gene. when i hear my dear friend al sharpton comparing the changing of early voting to what happened with bull conner in birmingham and the south, john lewis loves to do that all the time and john is a good friend of mine, but you know, or a voter -- telling somebody they have to bring a photo i.d. to the voting booth and comparing that to the poll taxes or the literacy test or comparing that to the outrageous hateful despicable things that took place before 1965, they lose me. and i think they lose most of the american people because the american people aren't stupid enough to believe that having somebody bring a photograph i.d. to a voting position is the same thing as bull conner loosening

dogs and water cannons on people who want to vote. >> you don't have to make the direct comparison to understand or to believe, frankly, that these -- that voter i.d. and limiting early voting have a political motive. they're not all about good government. if there were some big problem with impersonation voter fraud, for example, then okay, let's talk ain't this -- the acute need for voter i.d. but there is no such problem. it -- you know, people can point to like one case or two cases. it doesn't happen. and what does happen is, that republicans lose some races they don't want to lose and it can't be a coincidence that these are all republican issues. so, you know, i think it's legitimate to criticize this stuff. you don't necessarily have to draw a direct line. obviously there's a difference between bull conner and voter

i.d. >> you wouldn't have known that hearing what a lot of people have been saying over the past three days, this is the greatest setback suggesting nine states in the south -- >> but it is -- >> can i just say as a southerner, that is offensive to me because it wasn't just in the nine states. i lived in most of them growing up. not just those nine states in arizona that have tried to pass voter i.d. laws. it's happened in ohio and everywhere across america. i would like -- expand the map, but stop focusing on us in the deep south because guess what? the south has changed and gene, you know it as well, you know it better than i know it. >> you could have written my column. expand the map to include jurisdictions where, you know, there's some worse stuff going on and there is in parts of the south. now it is still true that the majority, the largest number of

the sort of proven violations of the voting rights act or transgressions under the voting rights act have happened in the south, but that's possibly because that's where people are looking for them. so -- and if you look for them in ohio and pennsylvania, you might start finding more too. i say, expand the map rather than doing away with it. >> focusing on the political realities of 1965. josh, stay with us, more to talk about on the topic. harold, we want to get you in too. news you can't use straight ahead and our live interview with texas state senator wendy davis. give her a chance to respond. governor rick perry's comments about her being a teenage mom. trying to figure out exactly how that is relevant to anything. distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups,"

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all right. it is time, my man. it is time. >> we're leading off with a good one here. news you can't use but you want. >> yeah. >> you got to have it. >> martha stewart has been doing a lot of talking lately, found herself in the headlines when she told the world she joined match.com. that was cool. the other night on "watch what happens live" she made more admissions during a segment called "did martha do it". >> okay. >> martha, have you had a one night stand? maggie, will she? >> oh, yes. >> martha? >> yes. >> yes. very good. okay. has martha ever sexed?

maggie? >> i think no. >> no? >> martha? yes. oh! >> threesome, has martha ever had a threesome? maggie? >> i think yes. >> martha? >> maybe. >> maybe? oh, my gosh. >> i'm going toic ta the fifth -- going to take the fifth on that one. >> donny deutsch? >> on the receiving end -- >> the threesome martha brought up -- >> you don't want to talk about it, do you? >> it with you a long time ago. >> no comment. >> she's 71 and she's, you know, hip. >> she's hip. >> martha's great. >> we love martha. apparently a lot of other people -- >> match.com's working out for her. >> it's working for her. >> with martha, though, you hear the voice. don't knock it. >> all i'm saying. >> going to get donny's phone in the break. >> yeah. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," actor steve carell will be with

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here? welcome back to "morning joe." donny deutsch is here -- >> if you don't like to be told your au wrong -- >> harold ford jr. highest minority turnout in the history of the united states of america. >> in 2012. >> and all we heard voter suppression, voter suppression. i sat there going the media is going along with this talking about voter suppression, any story they can find, they're going to whip them into a frenzy. democratic donors, base, democrats are going to be whipped into a frenzy and run out and saying voter suppression and then after the election, be highest african-american turnout ever. highest hispanic voter turnout ever. >> and that's because -- >> you had a justice department step in and block voter i.d. laws like the one that texas tried to impose and now after the court decision on tuesday has announced it's going to turn around and do. >> and i think the court decision you can link it back to those other horrific voter

suppressions because the motives were the same. not as dastardly but -- >> that's just not true. >> i've always supported -- >> you're saying the motive is the same. if i think somebody should be able to bring a photo i.d. -- the first time i voted they said what's your name. joe. is that you? yeah. okay. sign here. and then i vote. i was like wow. there's not a lot of safeguards here, are there? when somebody says why don't we have somebody bring a voter i.d. you bring your i.d. to everything else. why not? i'm thinking that's a sensible thing to do. suddenly people are running around saying you must be racist. i'm not. >> political motive -- >> no. >> here's -- >> motivation -- >> are they racist at the airport when they're asking for my photo i.d. ? >> they want to win elections -- >> is it racist for taz agents to ask me for my voter i.d. is. >> if you agree -- >> if you agree that aspect of

the voting rights act was included because the motivation was to restrict or limit or create bars or -- >> i'm saying i don't -- >> impediments to people voting -- i agree, i think the motivation in a lot of these efforts were the same. now some of the comparison may be a little outside but if the motivation is the same, then the remedy that we design to fix this regardless of how draconian some on the court may think if the motivation of those doing this is what it was 20, 30 years ago is what it is, what it was then, then the remedy -- >> but this administration and the mainstream media that followed right behind like lap dogs, they all put that presumption in people's heads. say myself r you -- you will say to me you know me you've known what i've done -- >> if you ran all of these states -- were the secretary of state in all these states of what runs the voting booth i wouldn't have an issue. you're not. >> does anybody think that most

americans find it objectionable or racist for people to have to bring a photo i.d. to the voting booth? because over the past three days, that's what we've been hearing. this is the most racist thing since jim crow laws, especially if those states are implementing measures that will help provide the i.d.s for them to use. >> but some of these states these secretaries of states that are equivalent specifically said, the reason we're doing this is to try to limit the number of black and hispanic voters the. the guy said that. >> the intent isn't political for republicans pushing these laws at the state level. >> you think because there's a jackass in pennsylvania every republican believes you should have a photo i.d. to come to vote -- how low do we want the bar to go, donny? this is a joke. this is such a joke. i will guarantee you most people in middle america, donny, would

be offended if you said they were racists because they believe -- because they believe there should be a photo i.d. when somebody goes -- don't you have a photo i.d. to get sudafed or almost anything? >> tell me if you agree with these statements, i believe the overwhelming americans would not think it's racist to have a photo i.d. and also believe the political motivation behind the nine states was driven to limit minority vote. >> how do you know? >> that's what i believe. >> that guy in pennsylvania said it. >> officials said so openly. >> the guy in pennsylvania you say said it. >> yeah. >> fine. >> other republicans have said it too. >> a jackass in pennsylvania who is a joke and shouldn't be in office. >> my point in the column was you impose the laws have jackass saying that stuff open and the practical effect it is going to be more difficult for republicans to win those minority voters and they need to. >> well, you know, if you look -- again, nothing has been rationale over the past three days since the supreme court

struck down a portion of the civil rights -- the voting act of '65, that said these nine states aren't as racist and as big gotted as they were in 1965, that made progress in the areas of civil rights. >> which is great. >> yeah. i think this is actually something to celebrate instead of -- instead of progressives deciding they're going to use this to say we're going back to the days of bull conner which again, the nonsense, the hi hyperbole has been nothing but offensive. but, you know, we can have this discussion, but if you look at the facts, reverend al here and he's saying they're suppressing the vote. they're not. mississippi, in five of the six states, that are covered in the map that were the original map, african-americans are voting at a higher percentage than white voters. >> that should mean it's working and shouldn't stop it. that's what -- >> come on. no. that should mean it's not 1965 anymore when only 7% of black

voters were voting in mississippi. what do you want? do we have to get to -- >> more educated than 1965. i don't think that's a relevant statistic. >> you continue to have a map that presumes mississippi officials are bigots and not allowed to move a polling booth from a middle school in a neighborhood to a high school in the neighborhood without getting the federal government and the attorney general to sign off on it? because they are such racists. they are such bigots. they are so evil at heart that you can't even trust them to move a voting booth three blocks without presuming they're just bigots because of 1965 they were bigots running the state. can we not move past that? >> it's politically motivated. >> you don't know what you're talking about. >> you don't know what you're talking about. >> i'm asking you a question. >> i'm answering the question. i'm not making a blanket statement -- >> are you saying any time somebody in the south wants to move a voting booth, a voting

booth from a middle school to a high school, in the same neighborhood, is because they're bigots. >> i am saying that it is a republican motivation to limit a minority vote because it gives them more chances to get elected. >> no. >> period. by making people show i.d.s, statistically -- >> donny, maybe there's not air conditioning in the middle school. maybe it's broken. so oh, god, you know, what, it's still hot in september in the primaries in mississippi so we're going to move it to the high school instead of the middle school where there's air conditioning because 85-year-old ladies we don't want them to have a stroke when they vote. let's move it. we can't -- >> that's not the thing the justice department is going to block. >> but does mississippi, does alabama, does arizona, do these states -- >> what happens is they have to ask for preclearance. let your voters know they ask for clearance. >> because these states are still presumed to be bigots. >> but the point the court made was, the map is outdated but they did not strike down the voting rights act. what they said is that congress

should go back and pass an updated map and so the onus is on congress and it's going to be on republicans in congress to do this or not do this. harry reid said he's going to introduce it in the senate. >> should republicans in house come back and lead and let's figure out how we do this? >> sure. by the way, i think the republicans should take the lead because there's been so much misinformation in the press and quite frankly, there's been so much misinformation from so many people because there's so many people who live outside of the southeast that still get a sense of moral superiority. if they keep the south under hill and make them look out to look like boss hog in "dukes of hazard". >> the good old boys. >> is that not the case, harold? >> look, i don't believe that the innocuous thing you're talking about air conditioning from one school to the other, there's no doubt states shouldn't have to ask for those things. if you have to have someone

faubl that causes deep concern. >> guess what? that proves my point. >> so you think they should expand the map? >> i think they should expand the map and treat all 50 states the same because i'm tired of people in the northeast and in washington feeling a moral superiority over -- and donny deutsch feeling a moral superiority. >> it has nothing to do with -- >> mississippi and florida and south carolina -- >> joe. >> and arizona. i know it makes you feel better. >> i resent that. >> to joe's -- if the republican adopt joe's point and embrace that -- >> those are two different discussions. the motivation was politically driven to limit minority votes -- >> and i agree. >> i believe today that's my point. >> pennsylvania's attorney general proves the point. >> in 1965 you believed that was the point. do you think there's still racist and bigots in 2013? >> nothing to do with people not liking black people. it is acknowledgement that black people vote heavily democratic

and if we limit their voting it's going to help -- >> i don't want to limit their voting. i support the civil rights act and it's still intact and the justice department can still enforce. i'm asking about this map that says these nine states are presumed to be run by racists and bigots shouldn't that change some. >> i wasn't presuming they were racists and bigots. i'm presuming republicans want to win elections. >> let's expand the map -- >> treat all states equally. >> he's not calling people racists and bigots at the end of the day the south has a republican tilt and bent and want to prevent democrats from winning. one of the basis of the democratic party are -- >> we may disagree on that -- >> let's expand the map to josh's point. the pennsylvania attorney general said we can help mitt romney if we stop black and brown people from voting democrat. >> let's treat all states equally. >> i'm with you. >> got it. >> and that's what -- if we -- don't have a problem with that. >> you agree with john roberts

and agree with the supreme court who said, let's treat all states -- >> i have no issue with it. everybody should ask for preclearance when they try to change voting laws. >> we are the roberts court. joining us now from washington, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. that took longer than i expected. former white house press secretary and now an msnbc contributor robert gibbs. you know, what is so fascinating, guys, and feel free to chime in on this if you want to, what's fascinating is josh green's piece talked about how we republicans have been focusing on the debt, we've been focusing on balancing the budget, focusing on the economy, we've been talking economics, economics, economics, and have been trying to steer away from some of the social issues. this week that strategy exploded. of course got one ruling after another that has to do with social issues. david gregory, it's going to be interesting to see how the republicans in the house respond to all of these changes. >> i think there's a new round of culture wars here and you hear it when you hear activists

on the right talking about gay marriage, lobbying now, getting ready to take this issue to the states to both defend those states where they have bans on gay marriage but also to make a push federally to limit the implementation of the doma law being struck down. you see it in abortion from the house to what's going on in the texas legislature. immigration is a piece of that as well, although that's not going to be fought out on the state level. i do think -- and now implementation of the voting rights act how congress takes that up. all of these issues are going to stir things back up and it really is the opposite of what you talked about earlier today, which is some midwestern conservative saying no let's keep our eye not on social issues but on the debt and economy. the reality is the federal level as well, it seems improbable at this point this president is going to be able to chip away at the debt, so he's going to be focused on these issues as well.

>> robert gibbs, challenges obviously for the republicans. seems to me they're always challenges for both sides not to overreach when you start talking about social issues. >> well, i don't think there's any doubt. the supreme court has that great ability to pick up a pretty big rock and throw it in an otherwise still pool and make big waves. we tend to see that quite frankly every time we get to the end of these sessions. they keep their biggest cases for the end. but look, david's right. even extend this argument to immigration reform because, you know, arizona's law is in front of the supreme court because arizona decided it would take immigration reform to a state level and create a patchwork of state laws when, in fact, what you have in the federal government is a desire to have immigration reform and some rationale immigration policy at a federal level. so i think it will be fascinating to watch how both parties react to this. i think josh's piece is very

important to read because it will be interesting to see how particularly republicans in an electorate that is getting more diverse as their coalition is getting wider, how they deal with some of the particularly these race issues. in terms of voting, let's do this. we don't have too many people, we have too few voting. elections on saturdays, let's have early voting for a month, let's do away with eight-hour waits on election day and long lines where campaigns have to pass out water and hot dogs to keep people in line. let's try to get more people involved in the process of representative democracy. >> let's not do the hot dog reference. >> joe, listen, let's look at political reality here. >> yeah. >> at a time when the demographics in the country are changing, moving toward a majority minority country, look at the obama coalition, of course the democratic party wants to create as many new voters as possible. that's what karl rove did in 2004 among republicans. that was one of the reasons why president bush won re-election. now democrats want to expand

voting. just like in a midterm election you want to keep voting down a little bit to make sure your hard core people come out to vote, the elderly tend to vote more during midterm elections and tends to benefit republicans in some areas, so here, too, you have some republicans and it's -- doesn't have to be motivated by racism but some republicans looking at the political map and saying hey, you know, if we have immigration reform, we have a lot of new, mostly democratic voters. here the president said yesterday, i thought something closer to what you said, which is let's get out of the business of preclearance, go across the board and make it fairer and more accessible for everybody. more people voting so we don't have long lines. can't everybody agree on that? what the court is saying in part, on gay marriage, they're saying on voting rights we're going to move incrementally here, no doubt. big impetus, big help to gay rights. but now the debate has to be taken up politically. at the state level and in the

case of voting rights congress has to step up and actually debate and do something. >> and so can i say for all of those people who i'm -- i'm preclearing all the hateful twitter, that people are saying i'm this horrible evil person from the south. >> you said all 50 states. >> all 50 states. david gregory said i am obama. he is taking my position. >> making my twitter life worse now. >> please, my friend, do not accuse the president of the united states of being racist. do not do what glen beck did so many hot summers. i am obama. david gregory just said it. we share the same position. look at this. no space in part on this. we spread the map to all 50 states. >> what you did is spread the twitter map to david gregory. >> maybe i am a uniter and not a divider. maybe yes, i can. i apologize for none of this.

apologize not for loving america. >> the president, the point -- >> yes. >> the point i was trying to make, it's going to be a dangerous temptation for republicans to address these coming demographic shifts by attempting to limit the vote. and the onus on them and all the decisions this week and in the senate's passage of immigration reform is that it puts the onus on them now to have to react on these issues and how they react -- >> following up on what david gregory said, the democrats want to get everybody to vote because the more they can get to vote the more likelihood it helps them. is it fair to say also the democrats want to eliminate as many safeguards to voting as humanly possible, even if it does lead to -- >> i don't see democrats wanting to eliminate any safeguards to voting. i think they want to forestall anything that would disentrap cheese people who are legally entitled to vote from voting which is the effect of these laws. >> the democrats, their hearts

are pure as driven snow. >> it's politics. sdmoom here's the point -- >> you cannot as the republican party take a stand and say we are for limiting the rights of people to vote. >> right. >> you can't be against expanding vote to everybody. >> no. >> you can be for safeguards. it's un-american to say we're going to do everything we can to get everybody voting, whether we're sure they're qualified to vote or not. whether they are legally qualified. >> joe -- >> democrats -- >> democrats -- >> want to expand it as much as possible. >> i'm going to challenge that. if democrats had a way legally, i believe this people running states, to limit really white rich people from voting they would do it also. it's politically driven to win an election. >> we have a history in this country of people systemically trying to prevent people from voting than people voting who are not eligible. people abusing that? sure. the vast evidence shows there are more efforts of people trying to block people from

voting than otherwise. should we expand it to 50 states. i give you credit, joe. you are a big voice. >> yes, we can. >> you are saying everybody ought to have to ask for preclearance if any efforts are taken to -- which could be construed as trying to prevent people from voting and i support that and we should support that. >> i misspoke. tim hardaway drafted by the knicks. >> robert gibbs, hope and change. >> president obama lamented the supreme court decision and, obviously, like harold said work still like to see the safeguards in place but he's dealing with the reality that it's gone so how should congress take this up and that's where he's -- he would like to see all states treated the same, it would appear based on comments yesterday. >> are you trying to save your twitter feed, david gregory? >> no. i'm trying to keep it real. >> david keeps it real -- >> david looking at his twitter feed and went in meltdown mode.

robert gibbs -- >> so be it. >> so robert, my point, i believe, has been made this morning in that when i'm talking about how you shouldn't just have this narrow focus on the states where there was institutional racism in 1965, and beyond, but i think we've gotten beyond most of those states the response to that is, yeah, but there's this crack pot in pennsylvania who said such, which is my point exactly. let's not just focus on the nine states that acted ab horntsly pre1965. let's treat every state the same. >> i think you heard the president say that. i think joe, you're going to find in your twitter feed that republicans are so keen on the notion of preclearance to the other 41 states and i will say this, i mean what's interesting is, you see this debate playing out on the set here today, between different viewpoints and the question is, this now gets kicked to congress, right?

the shelby county plaintiffs ta brought this case, brought it partly because they thought they could get out of this particular section more quickly through a legal avenue than they ever could through a legislative avenue and what the court has done is throw this quite frankly into the legislative avenue in order to fix this. i don't think this is going to happen any time soon. >> all right. well i don't think it is either. but thank you so much, josh green. we appreciate you coming here. stirring the pot. >> stirring the pot and telling yours glorious stories of dunking nerf basketball in your parents' living. david gregory, good luck with that twitter feed. our thoughts and prayers are with you. >> keeping it real. >> keep it real, david. >> keeping it real. >> a blue clip athlete. >> i think you should change the name of "meet the press" to "keeping it real with david gregory". >> you've got nancy pelosi on "meet the press" this weekend. that's going to be great. >> big show. >> yeah. we're going to tackle the cultural war aspect where we go now in the big

cultural/political debates and legal debates after the supreme court spoke this week. >> can't wait to see it. if it's sunday it's "meet the press." robert gibbs stay with us. a former top general at the pentagon and former close adviser to president obama is in big trouble accused of leaking classified information to the "new york times." michael is sikoff here with tha report next. our interview with texas state senator wendy davis. she was -- i think it was kind of a personal insult from rick perry. we're going to talk about that and much more. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. >> josh green dunk next time. >> dunk baby. out there owning it.

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america's beverage companies are delivering. want to invest in something that gives you many happy returns? invest in the lives of children by being a teacher. there's nothing as rewarding as watching kids succeed and knowing you had a hand in it. you'll want to be a teacher. the more you know. welcome back to "morning joe." if you're just tuning in, in in the previous segment joe and i got in a heated debate, went to commercial break, it got physical. no blood. joe is cleaning himself off. >> hospital? he doesn't need to go to the

hospital. that's ridiculous. >> justice department identified a man they believe was in the leak. nbc's investigative correspondent michael is sa cough joins us now with the update. what do you got? >> questions are swirling today about whether a former top military official will face charges over leaking classified information about a u.s. cyber attack. general cartwright a key member of president obama's inner circle of national security advisors. but legal sources tell nbc news that cartwright has been notified he's the target of a justice department criminal kregtsion into a highly sensitive leak about a covert u.s. cyber attack on iran's nuclear program. >> it's my attitude has been zero tolerance for these kinds of leaks. these are criminal acts when they release information like this. >> reporter: "the new york times" last year broke the story that president obama had secretly ordered a stepped up

cyber weapon attack using a malicious computer virus known as stuxnet and cartwright conveeved and oversaw the special operation from the pentagon. >> we're trying to build a second cyber force right now. >> reporter: cartwright did not respond to requests for comment from nbc news. contacted today his lawyer former obama white house counsel gregory craig, said only i have no comment. the times story disclosed key details about the stuxnet attack including its code name olympic games. the cooperation of israeli intelligence. and its success in disabling nearly 1,000 iranian centrifuges to enrich uranium. >> this leak was very damaging. clearly what was going on here was a method and should have been protected and it's had devastating consequences. >> reporter: the legal sources say the fbi originally focused on whether the stuxnet leak came from the white house. but late last year, agents started zeroing in on cartwright who had retired from the pentagon in 2011. motives of whoever leaked remain

a miss fystermystery. >> there are many reasons people leak classified information. sometimes it's to attack a program, sometimes it's to defend it. many times we just never know. >> white house and justice department officials declined to comment on any aspect of the case but legal sources tell nbc news that federal prosecutors have developed their case without issuing a subpoena for phone records from "the new york times." >> michael, you have an exclusive interview with edward snowden's father who says he thinks his son would come back to the u.s. let's have a listen. >> i love him. i would like to have the opportunity to communicate with him. i don't want to put him in peril. but i am concerned about those who surround him. i think wikileaks, if you've looked at past history, their focus isn't necessarily the constitution of the united states. it's simply to release as much information as possible. so that alone is a concern for

me. you know, at this point i don't feel he's committed treason. he has, in fact, broke a u.s. law in the sense that he has released classified information and if folks want to classify him as a traitor, in fact, he has betrayed his government, but i don't believe that he's betrayed the people of the united states. >> clearly this is a father in anguish. he's upset at the government about the way they've treated his sop. he's in pain he hasn't heard from his son in months. he's trying to do anything that might bring his son home. he is concerned as you heard there about some of the people that are surrounding edward snowden that have embraced him, particularly wikileaks. he believes they might be out for, as you heard some of that, he's out -- they're out for publicity and using his son in some way. >> michael isikoff, thank you so

much. >> sure. >> texas governor rick perry is making things personal as state senator wendy davis joins us next. later in the show anchor woman -- "anchor man 2" actor steve carell with us on set. joe, update, three stitches. not bad. "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day. good thing she's got the citi simplicity card.

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who are we to say that children born in the worst circumstances can't grow up to lead successful lives. even the woman who filibustered the senate the other day was born into difficult circumstances, the daughter of a single woman, a teenage mother herself. she managed to eventually graduate from harvard law school and serve in the texas senate. it's just unfortunate that she hasn't learned from her own example, that everybody must be given a chance to realize its full potential and the every life matters. >> with us now from ft. worth, texas, state senator wendy davis. harold ford jr. and donny deutsch and fortune magazine

tsarnaev assi-- magazine editorh us at the table. quite a week for you. >> it's been a crazy week. we're seeing that week tipped off with backhanded compliments from the governor himself saying even you were able to do well given your background. what is your response to governor perry's remarks last night? >> honestly, i think it demeans the office he holds. clearly governor perry has been using this issue as one, to serve his own political purpose all along and he revealed that, of course, to an even greater extent yesterday. >> so what is the future of this bill that would ban abortions after 20 weeks and require doctors to have abortion

providers to have admitting privileges in local hospitals? >> the most significant piece of the bill actually would close 37 of the 42 abortion clinics in texas by requiring that they meet standards of surgical centers and that's its real aim. the governor called another special session for monday, july 1st. he did place this bill on the call. we'll take the matter up again. and i know that, obviously, there's an incredible amount of attention focused on this right now and i expect we will have a tremendous amount of citizen involvement in what happensp in the next 30 days. >> so let's go really briefly through the parts of the bill that you find objectionable and then we want to pass it around to the table so donny deutsch and harold and everybody else can provide you your victory lap. are you ready to do that?

>> not the least -- >> first of all, do you think it is unreasonable for a state legislature to want to ban abortions after 20 weeks? >> you know, i -- the question is, does that in any way promote women's health and the purported purpose for the bill is to do that and, obviously, those sorts of decisions are incredibly personal decisions of each individual liberty that we possess and in texas we hold on to that value very strongly. as i know people do elsewhere. but that particular issue, of course, doesn't really accept or understand that there are often times women who understand they're carrying a fetus that has some very severe problems until after that 20-week period

of time and sometimes actually, if a woman has an irregular menstrual cycle she may not know she's pregnant until after that period of time. and the interesting thing about the way they wrote that particular provision, they set the date from which it should be determined as the date of fertilization. no doctor uses that date because no one can know what that means. what the ob gynecological association says that would essentially have them guessing in a way that would probably move that to about an 18-week fetal development and that would be something that's not seen anywhere else in the country of course. >> okay. but obviously with fetuses starting to become viable soon after 20 weeks, though, you can understand why that provision at least would be supported by some people in texas and across the country. i mean what i'm trying to say, that in and of itself that's not a radical provision, right?

>> you know, it's not in the sense that it affects actually very few women because 1%, somewhere less than 1%, of abortion procedures occur past the 20-week mark so it is very rare and it usually is in those circumstances where a family has a much wanted pregnancy and unfortunatelies has found either that there are problems for the mother or some severe abnormalities that the family is facing with that pregnancy. >> so senator, let me ask you about these other provisions that you're talking about, one of them has to do with having abortion providers holding them to the same standards as surgical centers. obviously after the horrors of pennsylvania, after the horrors of gosnell, after the horrors a lot of republicans blamed on a

former republican governor tom ridge for lowering standards in that state, what is wrong with trying to raise the standards to not only protect women, and certainly one who died under gosnell's terrible care, but also to make sure that the horrors that occurred in philadelphia don't occur in austin, don't occur in pensacola, florida, don't occur around the nation? >> well, the question is, does this, indeed, create a safer climate and we asked throughout the regular session and into the special session, whether the authors of this bill, the proponents of this bill, could tell us that the clinical setting in texas today -- and we have very high standards for what that clinical setting must be -- somehow that's created a problem for women's health. we asked for one single example where that setting was putting women's health in jeopardy.

no one could point to a single instance of that. the true aim of this, and lieutenant governor duhurst tweeted this out the night the bill first passed off the senate floor before it came back to us from the house -- he tweeted out by sending something saying, sb 5 has passed through the state and he put up a map showing all of the clinics that would be closed basically promoting the fact and bragging about the fact that in texas, abortion was going to become a very, very limited opportunity for women who were making very personal and private decisions that are constitutionally guaranteed to them. >> and obviously -- we talked about this over the past couple days, states like north dakota, maybe one clinic in all of north dakota because they've been regulated out of existence. that's a concern for those that support pro choice positions.

let me ask you about this, one final question and then i promise you we're going to turn it over and donny deutsch is about to go crazy, they want to carry you on their shoulders around here. one person that's not totally in the tank for you here or else it wouldn't be good tv. it seems very reasonable to me, to require abortion providers to also be doctors that have visiting privileges at local hospitals only so you don't have the situation that happens an awful lot, from what i hear in states -- i haven't studied it closely -- but i hear you have abortion providers that will fly into an area, perform a lot of abortions, because there aren't abortion providers in that area, and fly out with no connection to the community and no ability to go into a hospital if something happens with a procedure. is it rationale to suggest that an abortion provider in your hometown should also, if

something goes terribly wrong, be able to -- have privileges at your local hospital? >> well, this is an issue that affects hospital autonomy as well as doctors. and it's not typically the case that hospitals have as -- admitting privilege doctors, doctors that are in the practice of medicine in this particular arena and they do have emergency doctors who are there always capable, of course, in their emergency rooms to care for women who may have problems. what this bill actually required was that the doctor had to have active admitting privileges, meaning that doctor had to be a full-time practicing doctor within that hospital and, of course, what that would mean -- and it was purposely meant to create the situation where you would have fewer and fewer doctors who could perform these services. so if you combine the limitation on the number of facilities and

then very purposely constrain the number of doctors who would be capable of performing these services for women, you've created an environment in texas where you've put women's health at risk and that's the real issue here. thanks so much, richard. women's health if this bill were to go into law truly is put at risk and it's a sad state of affairs that politicians like governor perry and lieutenant governor duhurst decided this intrusion on women's individual personal decision making should be used as a political pawn for their higher aspirations and that's what's going on here. >> senator -- >> donny deutsch. >> congratulations on a very bold stand. i want to ask you to take off your senator hat for a minute and put on your daughter hat, mother hat. >> okay. >> because obviously what governor perry said it was personal when joe asked you it

demeans the office. if he said this to you at a dinner how would you respond to him as a woman? what would you say as a mother and a daughter, politics aside? >> i would say to him that i had the privilege of making a choice about the path i choice for my life and i'm so proud of my daughters, but i could never for a moment put myself in the shoes of another woman confronting a difficult personal choice and it really isn't for him to make statements like that. >> senator, leigh gallagher here. this is a woman's health issue but also a huge political issue possibly the biggest. demographics around the country are changing but changing in particular in texas when you have such enormous population fwroets. a lot of that is coming from minority districts and populations, more than any other place in the country. do you think the political winds in texas could shift or are in

the middle of shifting or what's your take on that? >> i think the more people understand about what our leadership is really up to in texas, yes, that's happening. we had an opportunity in texas to actually see governor perry in action on the national stage and what was interesting, even though he's been the governor such a long time here in texas he had always avoided debates, be he had always refused editorial board interviews an he had never been subjected to that kind of public scrutiny before. >> how do you think he did? >> women and men are learning that. >> not too well. >> that memory is a strange thing. you can't remember everything that you supported last week. i can't remember what i had for breakfast. >> can i make a statement -- >> she deserves a lot of credit for the democratic process is alive whether you agree with her or not. i do think we should set some limits on this but she deserves a lot of credit and congratulate

you on your courage. >> senator davis is going to be a major super star over the next couple decades in this country. >> i'm glad i asked the questions first, donny. >> okay. >> leigh -- >> i'm going to ask one question, how are your sneakers doing? they got almost as much attention as the filibuster itself. >> i had so much fun reading the amazon comment, the reviews of those tennis shoes yesterday. it's been a lot of fun. >> robert gibbs, would you like to join in the victory parade? >> look, let me ask you a question about the politics of this. obviously, this was a filibuster that ended and abutted against the end of a session. what's the political strategy, given how few democrats are in the texas state senate for winning this battle from your perspective in this next legislative session that governor perry called? >> the strategy honestly will be to hopefully epploy the

individual voices once again that really made the difference on this issue in the last special session. obviously, they let the clock run out. they put themselves in a position where a tremendous opportunity was put in front of us. my senate democratic colleagues, when the majority, the presiding officer, tried to shut the filibuster down, were masterful at continuing to essentially take that filibuster over themselves and move us forward so close to midnight. and then ultimately the people who had on serbserved the lieut governor running rough shod over the rules all day long couldn't take it any more. it was their participation in the final 15 minutes, the people's filibuster, that prevented that vote from occurring until 12:03 a.m. which meant its demise.

i think that empowered people here in texas and across the country. and i expect that they're going to do everything they can to assure that their voices will be heard again in next special session. >> all right, state senator wendy davis, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it.

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to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." harold ford, really impressive. whether you -- i obviously disagree with her on some of these issues. >> it's what you want -- >> no, no, really impressive though. >> i voted in congress in favor of some late-term abortion restrictions but i have to tell you, whether you agree with her or not, her approach, her temperament, her knowledge of the issues, the fact that she can debate the issues, is something that is absent in the,

many parts, particularly the federal leave. you have to come armed with facts and data. i actually like. whether you agree or disagree with her. >> she's compelling. >> she is compelling. being, donny's asking the question, is she married? can you believe him? come on. >> i'm in the advertising business. demographics. i'm always seeing trends in demographics. >> is that what you're calling it now?demographics. >> we feel we should keep the image out but the sneakers are great. >> we will be right back. we have so much to talk about. more supreme court decisions of course over the past week. how it's completely changed everything in politics. and eugene robinson going to be here with a muted defense.

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senate is run by gang. look at these guys. i wouldn't be surprised if they were smuggling in premium uncut flomax. so just who are they? jimmy, juice it. >> mccain. the maverick. menendez, the maybe mexican one. graham. the seductress. flake, the one you just heard of. and the rest. gang of eight. good morning, it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. live look at new york city. back with us on set, donny deutsch, james roberts, eugene robinson and kelly o'donnell. "wall street journal" talking about how the immigration bill

clears the senate. "the washington post," senate approves immigration bill. you can go on and on. and this is truly, eugene robinson, as historic a vote on any immigration bill since the last immigration bill passed the house by the same margin and then was killed in the house. >> yeah. >> i don't mean to be skeptical but come on. >> look, there are reasons to be skeptical, number one, because the speaker of the house says he's not going to bring up the bill. but it is a historic moment. the senate did get it together to do something. but how was it going to happen. and actually there's one question i had for you, joe, as a former member of the house. is there any chance 21 members of the house could vote to bring

up the senate bill? getting an up and down vote, where it could pass? >> i don't think so. could that get this out? you could certainly get it -- >> they could start it -- >> as you well remember, it just stopped when the majority sees it's getting close. and try their hardest to bring it through normal procedure. which they have the opportunity and the power to try to canning and amend and so forth. >> you're just not going to get to a citizenship thing. if you wanted the best verbal, and we're going to go to kelly in a second. but if you have like a visual of what it's going to look like. the senate just fighting and struggling hard to get this thing done, let me show you this clip. this is what the house is going to be looking like. the house is going to be the reporter on top.

of this flood victim in india. by the way, you don't want to try this at home. the reporter has been suspended. that is right now, that is john boehner on top of harry reid explaining to the american people why they will not be passing -- >> that is a 17-year journalist. >> i want to be in the preproduction meeting where you drew the lines together and say, okay, we'll use this visual -- >> can i hear him live for a second? hold on. [ speaking foreign language ] >> when he was suspended, he said he was actually doing this guy a wonderful favor and that he was actually -- >> joe, in this country, that's what we call an intern actually it. >> exactly. >> back to our regularly scheduled program. that is exactly what you're

going to see. the senate has now carried this over to the house and the house is going to treat the senate with as much respect as a reporter treated the flood victim. how do we get to the point where the senate passed a momentum immigration bill that has little chance of getting through the house? >> we're lucky they're not going to tilt down the camera to see whose shoulders i'm standing on here so we're all safe. >> keep it waste up. >> let me just give you a sense of what it felt like. you've certainly been there and seen how it is. there's certainly not a lot of empty seats. the chamber was packed. it was filled in by some of the young undocumented i grants who are coming to capitol hill. >> talk about the chances the senate bill has in the house. maybe the house comes up with a plan to legalize immigrants but

not to grant them citizenship. maybe they go halfway. >> i think people want this to happen, including me, have to understand, the house has to work ice will. the house's version of immigration reform could look very different. i think for those of us who want it, we have to understand the house is a totally different body. and hope that it come, to some sort of reconciliation process which we call conference. >> so the fallout continues on another story for paula deen. target's not going to fill any more orders. qvc is taking her off the air for now. diabetes drug manufacturers have suspended their deals with her. yet deen's book sales have been through the roof. not one but two of her cookbooks are at the top of the amazon best-seller list. her family has six of the top ten selling cookbooks on the web

retailer. >> that is the ultimate dichotomy between human tolerance and corporate tolerance. >> this isn't even about tolerance. people are going out, buying the book, to send a message. >> well, look, i was shocked when a 66-year-old woman from the south admitted that she had used the "n" word in her life. i know she's probably -- obviously as disgusting as that is -- >> why were you shocked? >> i'm being fa see shus. that's my whole point. >> i haven't had all my coffee yet. >> take a swig. >> the youngest you go in today's generation, the more color blind they are. corporations have no choice in that instance. even if they said, we want to stand by her -- >> are you surprised people are running out and buying her cookbooks because somebody said the "n" word? >> no --

>> i'm going to go get her cookbooks -- >> for two reasons, number one, there's been such an avalanche of awareness. she's the number one face on tv. good, bad or indifferent. two, to the paula deen fans, they think, we're not going to get any more paula deen, we better grab her while we're still in american commerce. the whole story is a sad story on every single level. what she did obviously is horrific on every varied level. but -- >> you're saying from guns to paula deen's crazy cookbooks, the fear of scarcity is driving the numbers up. >> i think in this instance, yes, very interesting. >> you wrote, paula deen slurs are a bitter pill to swallow. she's made her fortune in america where most people, white as well as black, consider warm and fuzzies no stally for the days of slavery to be highly offensive.

someone who missed the last 50 years might understand. all black people are uppity now. every one of us i'm afraid. i hope she figures it out. because anyone that fond of the deep fryer can't be all that bad. a period of silence would be a good start. said the man from south carolina. my advice, eat some hush puppies and don't talk with your mouth full. >> i resemble that remark, i mean -- >> i want to ask both -- >> go ahead. i want to get gene's response. >> that column -- that's not what i was planning to write about yesterday. and it just kind of wrote itself when i was driving in to the office. i had been thinking about paula deen, you know, having grown up in the south. she is 66. she's not 96. >> and then the i is what i is. where you coming down on this? you got nothing to hide.

you company out guns blazing. i got nothing to hide. this is not my intention. this is certainly a word i regret and i'm sorry and the whole thing. to say that i don't recognize that this is a problem word and i don't know where it falls in society that is a red flag. >> if she has a crisis manager, she so fire that crisis manager. if she has a pr team, she needs to look for another one because it was a really botched thing. one other story. we do have a special guest coming up in the show. things are getting personal now in the lone star state. speaking at the national right to life convention, texas governor rick perry accused senate senator wendy davis of hijacking the democratic process during her 11-hour filibuster of the state's most recent abortion bill. he went on to say that davis' personal story is a perfect example of why she should support stronger anti-abortion

laws. >> who are we to say that children born in the worst of circumstances can't grow to live successful lives. in fact, even the woman who filibustered the senate the other day was born into difficult circumstances. she's the daughter of a single woman. she was a teenage mother herself. she managed to eventually graduate from harvard law school. and serve in the texas senate. it's just unfortunate that she hasn't learn from her own example that every life must be given a chance to realize its full potential and that every life matters. >> wow. does rick perry really want -- i mean, talking about other people's personal lives. wow. davis was -- i mean, come on. >> that's a terrible -- >> that's just really -- >> don't go there. >> davis responded to governor

perry in a statement. coupling his remarks, quote, without dignity, she join us exclusively on "morning joe" live, 7:30 eastern time. i just wonder who does that? to get that personal? >> apparently the governor missed that whole chapter between rush limbaugh and sandra fluke who was the woman who testified on capitol hill and he went so personal in his comments about her and that backfired. she became even more empowered. the governor's position about abortion rights is well known. a lot of the other things he said didn't surprise anyone. but to go that personal against a woman who had obviously touched a nerve, had a lot of support, and simply used the democratic process. nobody likes the filibuster when it's not their issue. i love how it's hated given the day, the moment and party. she used the rules. she got a lot of attention for an issue she believed in. those who want to bring this idea back will do it again as

early as next week. the underlying bill they're talking about will be to limit abortion at 20 weeks. and to require that when an abortion is performed it's in a surgical center. that is, as you know, part of the fallout. where there was a belief that maybe more medical structure should be put around these. now of course people would want to see abortion rights strictly curtailed look for opportunities to bring a bill like this so you've got all of that emotion. there was simply no need to go personal. and the governor took that on and he will, i'm sure, be able to take the criticism that will come his way. >> on a later note, though, i hear that it is highly personal between these two because she gets more compliments for having better hair. >> really? >> that was a very mitt romney-esque comment about a white republican politician with no sense of the world outside of

their own world. >> i just thought actually that was beamean. saying, listen, she's a teenage mom, come on, she's not one of us -- >> that's my point -- >> that's exactly what that comment's about. only thing -- if a woman were saying that about somebody, they would start it with "bless her heart." bless her heart, she's a teenage mom. the underlying message is "pray for her because she obviously" -- >> doesn't know anybody. we should try to welcome her into our group and our community. whatever. fascinating to me. you've talked about this before. you talked about it yesterday i think. the country actually is moving closer to his position on abortion. we have to find restrictions. we live in -- i'm pro choice and we live in a city that thinks a little differently. for him to take that tact only enrages people like me who might think perhaps some restrictions around it ought to be provided.

to hear him talk that way -- >> and bother people like me who actually believe it is reasonable for a state to set 20 weeks as a limit. as someone who had a premature child that was born, you know, at 27 weeks and was in the ic -- nicu and saw kids at 124 weeks. i think that's very reasonable. i think that's having more safety standards. i think that's reasonable as well. making someone who's an abortion provider actually have to be able to be admitted to a local hospital, which people say it's absolutely outrageous, i believe that. and i think most americans believe that. >> he attacked her and her mother. >> my point here, he is hurting my cause by making a personal attack. >> he attacked her and her mother. i don't know what he was trying to get at. >> wendy davis is an electronic politician who has a big following. national profile.

rick perry is just doing her favors because she has aspirations to a higher office. >> he is. saying again -- >> basic rules politics, you don't give your opponent the bigger states. still ahead on "morning joe," hope after faith. how one former pastor in the deep south renounced his religion and became one of america's most in demand atheists. up next, the great steve carell joins us here on set to talk about his upcoming film "despicable me 2" and most importantly "anchor man 2." first, here's dylan dryer with a check on the forecast. >> it is going to be a hot one across the southwest today. each through the plain states. a couple of rain showers in the northeast. heavy rain that moved through new york and new jersey yesterday is now up across central and northern new england with some heavier rain across southeastern massachusetts. that area in yellow from

southern new england right down into the gulf coast states, that's where we'll see most of our thunderstorms today. biggest threat will be for isolated damaging wind gusts. it is all about the heat. we have excessive heat warnings in the southwest. dangerous and life threatening heat. record breaking heat. look at those numbers. palm springs, 112 degrees today. las vegas should get up to 115. the all-time record high in vegas is 117. we should hit that over the weekend. 127 degrees in death valley. so the heat is on. it is not going to improve as we go through this weekend. next week maybe. you arep whatting "morning joe." brewed by starbucks.

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[ gibberish [ [. >> you haven't seen this? >> i'm going to see this. >> you haven't seen the first one. the little minuions are great. >> i know what minions are. >> we have steve carell here. "despicable 2" coming up. your kids also loved minions so much they thought they were real. >> more than they love me. >> it's always that way. >> they knew i was in the movie. after the first one, what did you think, it you like dad in the movie? yeah, it was great, i want a minion. they're the best. >> the minions are -- what was it -- so this thing grossed -- the first one, like $540 million. >> yeah. >> by the way, at the time, like paid for universal, nbc universal, only thing making any money. i remember i said, thank god, zucker. he's going -- they're going to keep him on for another month.

this was incredible. >> it did well. it did not cost a lot either. it was one of those sort of sleeper hits. but resonated with people. i think people liked the fact it was accessible in some way. it was funny but there was also like a heart to it without being overly sentiment al. >> sweet. >> remember, parents used to watch "rocky and bullwinkle" with their kids but it was the only cartoon other than "the flintstones" kind like that but at some point these things got so big because parents enjoyed it as much as kids, animated movies. >> this one's no exception. when it can work on two different levels, it makes it tolerable for a parent to go see a movie. because i've been to -- i have two little kids. they're not so little anymore. but i've seen everything. when you go to a movie that's just impossible to sit through as a parent, you almost resent the filmmakers after a while. so this one is sophisticated in that sense. it works on two different

levels. >> like you said, it's not overly sentimental. the first one was really, you know, really moving. >> it is i think because it's earned. it's not cloying. it's not like that overly saccharin kind of manipulative sentimentality. >> like we do every morning. it's our formula. >> you make people cry every morning. >> i do. >> for a lot of different reasons. >> i cry every morning. >> do you? it's good, it's cathartic. >> when the old et daughter says "i love you" it gets you a little bit. he says, you call this litera literatu literature, this is garbage, the stuff that adults get pulled into. a lot of sequels follow the formula and sometimes they'll succeed or fail. how much does it go with the arc of the template of the first one? >> they didn't try to duplicate the first one, it's an extension of the first story.

but it's not derivative in a bad way. it echoes, you know, the minions you can't get away from how adorable. the minions are the marks brothers in my opinion. they're super, they're physical, and they're violent in a benign sort of way. and everybody -- and there's sort of a love between them and for them. so people have a real affection. so there's lots of minions in this one. >> they are so phenomenal. i want to ask you win one is zepo. you mentioned your kids. two kids. what part as a parent with children does it play any part in your role selection for not just this film, other films? >> yeah, to a certain extent. i like -- i've always liked doing things that have some sort of positivity to them. especially something like this.

you feel like you're putting something nice out there that is kind, that people -- that will make people feel good at the end of the day. can't always have something that's going to have that sort of effect but generally speaking those are the things i'm drawn to. >> because so many big stars do these animated roles and they seep to get into it, but how do you get there? when you read the script, you have -- do you actually look at what's coming in front of you? do you talk? do you have to envision in your mind? how does it work? >> i would love to lie and say there's a process. >> but there's no process? >> no. you show up and you look terrible. and there's -- the writing is really good. the director -- the animation team was based in france so the director generally was on a video hookup from france kind leading the actors through it. but it's just fun, you know, you find the voice and you play around and you don't hear any other actors so there are no parameters to what's expected of

you. and you just try to give as many variations on a line as you can. >> because i am a guy and an idiot, i would love to talk about "anchor man 2." before i do that, i've got to talk -- a point of personal privilege. it's my show so i can talk about it. a movie that's underrated. it cost a lot. a lot of people didn't go see it. "evan almighty." after i saw "evan almighty. "a lot people said oh this is terrible. well, people didn't go in the seats as month as they needed. i said this is a movie 20 years from now people are going to be seeing. i mean, it was really -- i thought that was a really special movie. >> that's, you know, some movies can get sort of a stink on them based on a lot of different factors. that was just a very expensive movie so i think that became a story. >> was it expensive because of

the animals -- >> yeah, you have two lions walking behind two gazelles, you really can't film them at the same time because you will just have lions at the end of the take. so you have to spend a whole day filming two lions walking across camera. and then a whole day filming two gazelles walking across. and then, you know, you edit them altogether and you do different layers. so it was expensive. but i think that movie sort of got a bad rap because of the budget. but yeah, it's sweet, you know -- >> it really is. >> yeah, it's nice of you to say. >> my kids love it. did your kids -- >> oh, yeah. >> do your kids, they go to the movies and -- you already said with "despicable me" they loved the minions. do they see "evan almighty" and say, i really like the giraffe? >> kids are really honest about everything. there's no filter there.

they'll tell you if they thought it was bad. fortunately the stuff they've been able to see of mine they've enjoyed. >> you know what your kidses would really like? >> what's that? >> tell them about your general store. >> i own a general store in massachusetts. >> do you? >> my wife and i. >> where? >> in marshfield. it's south shore of massachusetts. >> marshfield. >> marshfield. >> i love it. >> few years ago, came on the market. like 150-year-old building. little general store on one side. rural post office on the other side. porch, you know, people go there, get penny candy, sit out on the porch. it's a congregating place. very few of those places exist. >> that is so cool. >> have you been there? >> i've been by it. he sells great candy. >> all the old timy stuff. >> that's on the -- >> it's on the way. >> on the way to the cape. >> well, you just got some business. >> we got to talk about "anchor man 2." >> joe made me watch the first

"anchor man." >> you saw it this year? >> i was howling. >> it took a long time for people to find it. when it first came out it did okay. a lot of people found it on dvd and cable later on. >> i can't wait to see "anchor man 2." tell me. >> the first one i feel like is tip of the iceberg. this is -- it's so -- i don't want to build it up too much but, it was so much fun to do. i think it's going to be really funny. because everybody that was in the first one plus -- i think some of the cameos are out. some of them aren't. some of the stuff that you're going to see is -- will be unexpected. >> throw up in your shoes funny. i'm telling you. >> i don't know they're going to put that in the movie poster, but weem got to end by talking about the office. it's nice. a nice ending. glad you showed up for it. >> a lot of people didn't

think -- >> i didn't think you were going to talk about that. was it kind of like going back to high school? did you not want to go back to it or did you always know you wanted to be in the last one? >> we'd always been talking about that. it was just in terms of what context i go back. i didn't think there should be a big arc for me at the end because that character already had his big ending arc so i wanted it to be more in deference to the other characters and to the show and to honor it. but it was fun. it was fun to go back. >> one my favorite shows. i actually forced myself to sit down, because it's such a good show. and your character, a good man. >> ultimately. >> a very good man. >> a good guy. >> all right. "despicable me" will be out in theaters july 3. "despicable me 2." you also starred in the sundance film "way, way back," so busy, busy summer. we'll be right back.

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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. welcome back. here with us now for our "faith on friday" series, father james

martin. and in baton rouge, louisiana, former pentecostal minister, now atheist, jerry dewitt. the author of the new book "hope after faith." thomas roberts and legal ger are back at the table as well. and as fascinating as all of us seem to be to ourselves and others, there's nobody more fascinating than somebody who writes a book as -- i mean, it just is a grabber. an ex-pastor's journey from belief to eighthiatheist. why did you write the book? >> i wrote the book to tell my story. i think it's a story a lot of people are living through. i think they needed the support by hearing there were other people out in the world just like themselves. thank you for calling me fascinating. i think that's a first. >> well, fascinating. it beats what i'm sure a lot of other people have been calling

you. so tell me about the leap from faith to what i would believe would be hopelessness but you say there's hope after faith. talk about that jump. was there a triggering event or did it occur over time? >> no. no. i wish it was a triggering event. but then we wouldn't have 270 pages of a book to write or 25 years worth of a story to tell. it was actually 25 years of life changing experiences and following thoughts where they led. i'll be honest with you, it was love all the way through. love for humanity. love for god. love for truth. all those things are what brought me to where i'm at today. >> do you still have love for those who were your parishioners? do you still have respect for -- >> oh, absolutely. >> and i have to ask this question because there have been so many books that have been out, that atheists have written, that have been con tumt with us

of those of us who still believe that jesus is the son of god and believe what the bible says. >> right. yeah, no, i don't have any contempt. i honestly don't have any contempt for anyone. whenever i say that i'm a lover, not a fighter, i'm not exaggera exaggerating. i stopped growing at 55 foreign poli policy. i learned how to get along. >> how long will you actually -- >> i love everybody -- >> how long were you in the pulpit possessing those doubts? >> yeah, possessing doubts, you know, at age 17 when it became my responsibility to preach hell and eternal punishment and all of the people who the bible says will go there, i started having doubts about hell and that doubt spread to the next and then the next. so over 25 years, i was always, you know, very concerned about some part of theology but it wasn't till just the last couple years it solidified into -- it

actually crossinged the barrier and got into my relationship with god. >> when was the moment you said, i just can no longer tell people i believe in god, i can no longer continue preaching, i just don't believe it any more? >> it was the worst moment of my life. as i've already mentioned, i loved everybody so much and they loved me so much and i respected them so much. i had a friend who called for prayer one night and i realized that i was not going to be able to pray for her without feeling as if i was misleading her and also without feeling like i was going to set her up for her own doubts. i wasn't enjoying doubting. i wasn't enjoying it at all. i didn't wish that upon her. so it was one particular night just a couple years ago. >> father, there is so much -- i go a lot times when i'm in town to redeeper and lis to tim keller. tim basically preaches to the doubters. and he says we live in a very

cynical age. what would you say for others out there the that are listening to jerry and struggling with their own doubts? >> i think first of all, to respect his path, that's his path, that's not path in particular. i think also to recognize that doubt is a natural part of faith. it's a part of being human. we had someone like doubting thomas when a lot the disciples early on doubted jesus. so i think for the believer, i would say that your doubt doesn't necessarily mean you have to give up your faith. like i said, i respect his path in terms of loving people. a lot of my best friends, to coin a phrase, are atheists and agnostics. >> you also find when you don't shy away from the faith -- i mean, when you don't shy away from the doubts. when you stare the doubts. when you look straight into the abyss. you come out actually if you do come out on the other side still in faith with the stronger faith because you dared to ask the tough questions. >> absolutely. it's part of being in an honest

relationship with god, to sort of admit those doubts. also to say to yourself i might have to believe in a god i don't fully understand. i don't need to sort of comprehend in totality god's being because that's beyond me. >> thomas. i was going to say i'm a doubting thomas in the respect that i do believe in god but i only doubt those that are on the front end of religion. organized religion. because of the muttled mess -- >> that actually puts you in good company with jesus who actually had the most problem with the religious leaders of his day. >> i think spirituality is very important. i wanted to ask you because there is certainly interreligious messaging. certainly an enhancement that comes for so many people in believing in god, a higher power and faith. where do you stand on spirituality? >> obviously, it did work for some people. some people find a lot comfort and a lot of meaning. i happen to believe at this point that supernaturalism is just an extra layer added on top of humanistic values that we do

find very comfortable. i think the universe is ma marvelous. life is a very special gift we're all enjoying. and the human species has great things to accomplish and great power to accomplish it with. if you want to call that spirituality, then i'm still a very spiritual person. >> lee. >> you write about how you were shubed from your community. can you tell us about that a little bit and what impact that had on you even as you were going through this process? >> sure. i appreciate you asking it. that's really the point of the story. i was a horrible christian evangelist. i consider myself more a pastor. so i'm not out evangelizing the world from atheist necessarily. i lost my friends. the majority of my family. i had a secular job. i was actually fired from that secular job because my boss, who was my best friend, said i would destroy his business when word got out that i now was a nonbeliever in our little community. and so, you know, our home went

into foreclosure. we saved it through bankruptcy. it's been devastating. in the 21st century, it's been devastating for a 17-year-old to then change his mind at 42 years of age. it just shouldn't be that way. i know ya'll agree it shouldn't be that way. >> i was going to say of course father, of course jesus was not -- did not go around and cast aspersions and judgments on really directly on those that had doubts. that he met them where they lived. >> he absolutely did. ironically, the peep that he cast the most dispersions on were religious authorities of his day who we found were hypocritical. jesus' way is not to force people, it's to invite. he doesn't say, you know, if you don't come and say i'm going to hit you over the head. in terms of advantaevangelism, always use words when necessary.

>> thank you, father. jerry, thank you for being with us as well. your book is fascinating. >> it's my pleasure, i love you all. >> all right, thank you so much. the book is "hope after faith." coming up next, it's tough out there for small business owners. 67% of them have no plans to hire in the next six months. j.j. ramburg takes us inside the challenges facing main street straight ahead.

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people are struggling. small businesses. people who aren't interested in enormous growth but they're interested in providing a life for their family, and for the families of their employees and it's tough out there. >> washington always talks about main street. we've got to help main street. got to help small business owners. they don't feel it, do they? >> so far we've been to alabama and illinois. and i asked everyone who i met on these main streets, do you feel when washington is talking about small business, when politicians are talking about helping small business, do you feel like they're talking to you? to a person, everyone said no. >> it's funny -- >> go ahead. >> it's true, talk about small business, we're here, always talking about it, but what do they do. the question is what do small businesses want. >> i asked them. some of them say they need loans. small business lending is still way off from prerecession levels. loans. mostly they need customers. to get customers, you need the

economy as a whole to rise. on main street, you also need small businesses to work together. it's different than a silicon valley company that's starting and, you know, they live or die by what they do themselves. on main street, they need the local government to work to bring people in. >> it's true. you said silicon valley is like a different place altogether. when you say it depends what main street, are you seeing at all any differences between either regionally or types of industry in terms of who's doing better? >> the two weem gone to, gal lynn that, illinois, has reinvented itself as a tourism. as a place to go. they're getting people in there. blendage, alabama, has tried to rebrand itself but it hasn't worked yet so they're not getting the gher customers tha need. >> part of the problem is people are holding on to their money longer. savings rate is going up. we celebrate that. that's not good for small business. >> you heard this in galina too,

we used to get people making reservation, in advance. now you'll get someone driving into town and making a reservation that day. >> people are more spontaneous in how they spend? >> spontaneous, holding on to their money till the last minute. >> what's the one thing they need the most? is it the loans? is it the help from the banks? >> it's customers. >> which is what big business needs also. >> it's what walmart and home depot have done to america. it's still part of that conversation. >> exactly. >> watch "your business" sunday at 7:30 a.m. i do all the time, every week. j.j., thank you so much for being here. when we continue our conversation, we continue our conversation online, you can tweet your questions for j.j., and watch our exclusive green room interview later today to find out which of your questions are answered. dionne wants to save on fast food dinners. a meal like this from walmart

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welcome back to "morning joe." a lot to talk about on what's going to be on the web the rest of the day. we just talked to j.j. she's going to be answering your questions about the problems with main street versus wall street. and texas senate senator wendy davis. go to our website. also, i'll be posting the column on politico later this morning.

you can of course find all my politico columns by just googling joe scarborough and politico. that will come up. i hope that comes up. instead of pictures of donny deutsch in speedos. let's see if the speedo pictures are there.

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joe." what did you learn? >> you liked "evan almighty." >> "evan almighty" is great. >> you said a generation from now, we'll look back at this movie and love it. >> it will be like "a wonderful life." i make no apologies. >> i learned small businesses are key to recovery in the economy. you made an amazing reference. to boss hogg. i got to give you credit for that. different topic. >> hey, clayton collins turns 25 tomorrow. look at him. >> is that why he dressed up today, because he was going to get a shoutout? >> of course it is. hey, clayton turns 25 tomorrow. so i say -- he's right there, just coincidentally in front of the camera. >> he has a pocket square today. clayton. >> if it's way too early it is "morning joe." but stick around because the man they like to call the fix. the kids call him the fix. that's right. in washington, d.c. straight ahead.

on chuck's show. have a great day. a major moment in the fight for immigration reform as the senate sends a bill with bipartisan backing to the house. but what will republican leaders there do with it? will the bill even get a vote unless a majority of republicans say okay? meantime, president obama continues his week-long tour of africa. arriving today in south africa where former president nelson mandela's condition remains critical and crowds celebrate and pray for the iconic leader. back at home, first it was senator mccaskill. then senator gillibrand. now it's top democrat nancy pelosi pushing the idea of hillary clinton making another bid for the white house. what does this wave of well wishing tell us this early